Where are you at the moment?
I’m in Canada. It’s so nice to come back for the summer. I’m in Vancouver, so four months out of the year are nice, and the rest of them are rainy and grey. Not dissimilar to Scotland and Manchester!
What kind of feedback did you get from series one?
I’d seen some great feedback on social media; it was nice to see people watching from all over the world. Friends and family have to say they like it, but once you hear from people who have no attachment to you whatsoever, and they like it, that tends to be a good sign.
How did it feel, coming back for a second series?
It felt like reuniting with an old friend! On the other hand, there were times where I started questioning myself. “Is that still in keeping with Kathy?” I wanted to do right by her, so I spent some time exploring how much she could evolve over the course of the second series.
What was your reaction to the scripts?
I loved them! I was so happy to see it going deeper. The thing that drew me to series one was the quality of the writing, so I felt they had kept the wonderful crime and suspenseful aspects, and the juiciness of that, but adding in the layered complexities of the characters and their flaws. It’s heaven for an actor.
Authenticity is very important to Amelia. Do you find the jargon tricky?
Absolutely! It’s a lot of repetition. When I know I have a big chunk coming up, I start working on it days before, because it’s tough to get it right! It’s definitely challenging, but so rewarding when you have finally memorised it, and you can play with it a bit. But it isn’t easy!
What did you do to prepare for this series?
I mostly went on what was on the page, but I did read another book by Sue Black, who is a renowned forensic anthropologist. For the first series, I read All That Remains, which is almost a memoir of hers, and so beautifully written. I was so surprised by it, because I thought it would be like a nuts and bolts of forensic anthropology, but it was actually very life-affirming. This series, I started reading her latest one, Written in Bone. I find that helps to grasp Kathy’s mindset, and how she views the world. I also did a little bit of research into certain mental health conditions, which is something else we touch upon in this series.
What happens when we pick up with the team again?
Last series we mainly had the one case, but this time we have two different cases, which is fun. The first case is a series of bombings, which is obviously super suspenseful. We’re not sure if it’s the same person, so we’re looking into the psychology as well as the physical evidence to try and determine who it is. Then we have another case of bodies and body parts being washed up, and ultimately being traced to young people committing suicide, which opens up the realm of mental health. We look at the reasons why someone would want to be violent and destructive, and the reasons why someone would want to take their own life. We go deep series 2!
What more do we learn about Kathy in this series?
She comes up against her flaws and weaknesses. She’s a very strong person and good at her job, and has so much of her life under control – except for her personal life. She aces everything else, but when it comes to actual social interaction, that’s not easy for her. We go a bit deeper into that, and how her lack of communication skills backfires, and her reckoning with that. She can fix so many other things when it comes to science and bones, it’s all very straightforward and matter of fact, but when it comes to interactions with the living, it’s very confusing and complex, so how does she stay in control and in a good place in her life while meeting these challenges?
She’s coming up against some online issues too, isn’t she?
Yes. Some students have been talking about her on a private Facebook group. The Dean gets wind of that, so she sits Kathy down to give her a talking-to. This is all very new to Kathy, because as far as she’s concerned everything’s straightforward with the students. “I teach, they learn, end of story.” To hear there are issues with how Kathy teaches, that she can be a bit of a bitch, or that she’s a hard marker, these challenges are new territory to her. It’s not a pleasant thing, but it’s still something that she has to deal with, even though she doesn’t agree with it. She thinks it’s stupid and weak as though, “Students need to be spoon-fed these days!”
It feels like a modern thing to be talking about.
Absolutely. In this world now, we’re a lot more sensitive, and the systems are a lot more sensitive to people’s needs, so you can get away with a lot less. Whether it’s tone, or the actual words used, it’s all about everyone feeling okay. It’s very challenging for her. How do you actually still have an authentic experience, and still play by those rules? It’s tricky.
We see her vulnerable side a bit more too, don’t we?
Kathy has always been protective of her private life, so it’s doubly challenging when personal things come up with Pia (Joana Borja) during a work-related field trip. It comes to a head, and she can’t hide her feelings about the situation anymore. Her co-worker Erika, who’s a new character this series played by the fantastic Krysten Peck, is privy to all that, which Kathy is not happy about. That becomes a whole bone of contention between them, more on Kathy’s part. “You know my personal issues, and I’m not comfortable with that, so I’m going to punish you for it.”
This is made more intense because of this field trip. What were these scenes like to film together?
The relationship on the trip is interesting, because it’s this constant battle of Kathy trying to keep the upper hand, because there is a difference in status. Kathy is the superior, and Erika is the PhD student who’s brilliant in her own right, but still working under her. Now that Kathy’s vulnerabilities are revealed, it switches the balance a little bit and makes it a bit more equal. It’s this constant dance of Kathy trying to keep the upper hand in whatever way she can, because she can’t be seen as weak. She can do it through her intelligence, she can do it through her work, or she can do it through not engaging at all with talking about feelings, but it’s still a challenge. All this has happened, and neither of them can pretend it didn’t, as much as Kathy tries. The scenes were super fun to film. There were certain scenes where we thought, “Was that too harsh? Is that too much? Is that realistic?” Krysten is great to work with, and always open to stuff, as were both the directors we worked with, so it was nice to try different things to find the right flavour for the scene.
You must have to tread that line very carefully, because we would lose empathy for Kathy if you played her too harshly. Do you like her?
I do! I love her. It’s so interesting, someone who leads with their mind rather than their heart, but the heart always comes into it. How do you figure that out with your head? I love that there’s an element of innocence about her in that aspect, or naivete. I enjoy the challenge too, because it isn’t easy figuring out the right balance. As wonderful and fulfilling as it is, it’s also terrifying, not knowing if you got it right.
How were you with the dismembered body parts?
It wasn’t too bad, actually. I generally have a pretty good stomach when it comes to that stuff. I don’t know where that comes from! For some reason I have a thing about snot though, I can’t really handle that, but blood and guts don’t bother me. We also shot some scenes in a real working mortuary. Talking to those pathologists, and hearing about their experiences and the gallows humour they use was an educational and enlightening experience.
What was filming on location like?
We filmed most of the interiors in Manchester. We did shoot some of the exteriors there too, but a lot of them were shot in Dundee. I was so thrilled to get the chance to go up there, it was gorgeous. Beautiful, rolling countryside, so it was glorious to actually experience that this time. When we’re walking through the woods and finding body parts, Erika has lots of lines commenting on how beautiful it is. It’s not hard to act that, when you’re surrounded by it!
Do you think that’s part of the appeal of the show?
I think it’s part of it, because the authenticity comes down through everything. The detailed study the props masters do, learning anatomy, and making sure that it was all correct, is incredible. So it comes from that, and it also helps the actors because you feel the gravity of the situation more when you’re dealing with something that’s so realistic. The authenticity also comes down through the writing, because of how much consulting Amelia has done with professionals in the field, so we know anything that’s being said is realistic, and we know that the protocol is correct. If she bounced an idea off them and they said, “That would never happen,” it doesn’t go in the script. Having a certain level of realism that you can count on is important, because otherwise you can lose viewers.
There are some fascinating facts that jumped out at me this series. It must be fascinating for you to come across these in the scripts.
That’s the glorious thing about it! In addition to enjoying what you do as a profession, it’s all about the education that you get on the spot! I would never have known in a million years, about pigs being the closest analogue to humans, so that’s why they’re used in so much research of various human organs or skin, and how that relates to human decomposition. There are even condom databases! Reading Sue Black’s book last year, I learned how she developed a system of recognising people’s veins in photographs. Everyone’s vein patterns are slightly different when you look at a photo of someone’s hands, so she was able to start this database of veined hands in order to track down paedophiles, because a lot of paedophiles will take photos of their victims, and their hand will be in the shot. It’s fascinating.
What was it like to reunite with the cast?
I was so happy to get to do it again with them! I adore them, they’re such good people. There’s something about the Scottish sensibility that resonates with me on a cellular level. I love these people to death. I know it’s trite to say this, but they truly are like family, so to have that family and that connection while I was away from home for so long was something I was especially grateful for.
Do you have any Scottish in your family?
I do! My dad is English, he was born in Leeds. Spence is an adopted name, because my grandpa on my dad’s side was adopted by his grandma, so his actual birth name would have been Fothergill. But Spence, I think, has Scottish roots. I’m sure there’s something. I feel that connection in a primal way.
How did the new cast members fit in?
How did the new cast members fit in?
The new characters I filmed with in this series are these wonderful young people, Krysten Peck and Rohit Kumar. Both of them were basically plucked right out of drama school, they didn’t even get to finish their terms! I’m so impressed by these two. They’re young, confident, yet always open and willing to learn. I had no bloody clue at that age about how to carry myself, or how to ask questions! They’re wonderful additions to the family.
Would you want to get back into Kathy for another series?
Absolutely! I’ll go as long as they will have me. I love the character, and I love the show. It’s a total joy to work on. I do love every minute, even the challenges, so I hope we get to do it again.
Is part of the pleasure for you as an actress being part of that female-heavy cast?
Totally! Having been around for a while now, it’s still a relatively new thing for me. What I’m hearing from a lot of the younger cast like Molly Windsor, is that this is the norm now. That made me so happy to hear! I remember talking to her about it, and her saying that it had pretty much always been this way in her working life, for instance working with a lot of female directors. And this is such a great group of women. Aside from being women, they’ve had such admirable projects that I’ve enjoyed watching, so it’s great to actually work with them and experience their expertise first-hand. It also feels great to see a character who is gay without that being the sole focus. Props to Val McDermid, because she wanted for there to be at least one queer relationship on the show. And Kathy’s not a token gay character – this is just the way the world looks. If we don’t represent what the world looks like, then we’re living in a bizarre fantasy. Val was integral in ensuring that. When we talk about diversity, we never want to see that represented in the sense of “Oh, yes, they had to tick that box.” But why wouldn’t you want to integrate it organically? When I look around at my world and my connections, that’s the way it is.
